Also there is [this]
Well for one, yet again we have to clarify that the Bukkit API itself is safe from legal action unlike the Implementation. Spigot is not breaking any laws at the moment and is simply distributing the method by which people can create their own spigot server and bukkit API, this is a simple modding process and NOT ILLEGAL. So if you are calling it a “piracy server” you have not looked into this enough. Also, while spigot has moved their server to Romania that doesn’t mean they are doing anything illegal, they could be avoiding a potential DCMA, they could be trying to get better up/down speeds, until md_5 says anything everything is speculation. Wolfe is going to DCMA spigot whether it is a well founded legal action or not and when he does he will be unable to do anything. For those of you talking about bugs and spigot dying you have obviously not see the forums. Spigot is very alive and kicking and will continue fighting legal actions. Don’t expect them to roll over and die because of a DCMA or a few bugs.
Well isn’t some of the forge team working in sponge project?
The grey shade of what Spigot is doing does not rise to the level of preventing implementation of Spigot 1.8 as a practical short term interim step to Sponge. Which is really necessary given what is realistic in terms of how much time it will take to port enough plugins to get server operators simply back to where they were before this mess. A review of the plugin port list shows 500+ plugins, IIRC. It will take a year to get most of these ported.
Besides, unless a lawyer is willing to take up Wolverness’s cause on contingency, to take action on enforcing the DMCA, it isn’t worth the paper it is printed on. The second DMCA will be on much weaker legal ground than the first, and besides, he would be DMCAing an organization (Spigot) with little to no assets. (No insult to Spigot intended- I use Spigot currently.) Very few lawyers are willing to work on a contingent basis with no payoff at the end. Mojang/Microsoft is not going to touch this issue with a ten foot pole, either, so their assets and resources will be unavailable to help Wolverness.
Unless Wolverness is independently wealthy he is going to have difficulty enforcing his claim on Spigot. I, for one, will be using Spigot 1.8 as soon as a few lingering issues are resolved as a bridge until Sponge is more mature. I suspect I am not the only one!
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s/DCMA/DMCA/g
Otherwise, I agree completely.
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If I had to take a guess at what’s going to go on… I’d say that Spigot’s servers being switched to Romania is a sign that the Spigot team is going to tell Wolf to take his DMCA req. and shove it. The timing of this switch is certainly interesting.
If Spigot does this, as others have pointed out, realistically what can Wolf do? It’s a huge expense to sue and try getting a lawyer to represent you to sue an organization that holds no assets. Then on top of that Spigot’s servers are in Romania, which legally stacks on a whole other layer of complications. If Spigot chooses to ignore Wolf’s DMCA req. I don’t think there’s a whole lot Wolf can do about it unless he’s ready to spend some really big coin.
Bottom line is he seems mostly interested in protecting his personal property, though, it does also seem a bit like he’s receiving pressure from M$/Mojang to continue. The first time may have been purely for his own interests, but at this point he may just be a pawn for the bigger companies, being bullied into pulling the trigger at his own expense, instead of theirs.
Microsoft just made a huge power play by acquiring Mojang, and if they vilify themselves right out the gate, the value of that purchase is going to drop dramatically. If they want to take down the mod community, you can bet they’re going to scapegoat someone in the community instead of getting their own hands dirty.
Just food for thought.
Let me summarize:
Wolverness: Hahaha guys you cannot use my code, screw it Bukkit, screw it Spigot!
md_5: No, screw you Wolverness, try sue me baby.
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I see extreme selfishness
Though I strongly disagree with his stance, I think it would be best if we avoided calling him a 9 year old.
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Again, do we really need to keep attacking him? I no fan of his, but throwing insults like that is just horrible to read. I was enjoying having a conversation about the legalities of it without pointing the finger or attacking anyone, and it seems it’s just spiraled back into another “lets bash him for this DMCA which we all think is wrong”.
Let’s sum this up:
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What Spigot is doing is a definately legal grey area. The GPL v3 has been tested in court, but for this particular area - we really can’t say with certainty. See my above posts for my thinking on this. Wolvereness on his twitter has suggested it isn’t legal by linking to a GPL FAQ, and it indeed looks as if this situation is forbidden by the GPL, but I’m no lawyer, and I can see why it could be argued the other way.
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They are out of reach of the DMCA takedown request, a US function, as they are not hosting on a US server. This doesn’t make it any more or less legal - but means that it becomes a question of international law if Wolvereness is to really try hard to stop this. Whether Spigot is right or wrong, doing this saves a whole lot of hassle dealing with DMCAs anyway - it certainly isn’t an admission of doing the wrong thing.
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Wolvereness’s motives are unclear. On first glance it appears that his is throwing his toys out of the pram, but I seriously doubt that he’s doing this for the hell of it. If he didn’t care for the community, I don’t think he would have even touched CraftBukkit in the first place. I do believe he’s been contacted by Mojang’s lawyers however - I do think there is more than meets the eye.
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It’s pretty clear that anything that uses Mojang code is under threat of a DMCA from Wolvereness if it contains his code. However, we don’t know how far he inteneds to go, indeed, if he has the backing to be able to make a legal play. He certainly has the right to, whether what Spigot is doing is right or wrong, but as people have pointed out, cost.
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I suspect, like others, that Spigot will resist the DMCA, no real legal action will happen, and it will be the go to choice until a real contender, Sponge or otherwise, takes it’s place. I believe the community wants a well supported server that can accept plugins and has a wide range to choose from - rather than wanting a Bukkit server.
People are upset that this has happened. I get that, even I was annoyed at it. However, this DMCA has been in effect for three months now. Surely it’s best just to lay this to rest and get on with it. None of us know what the real situation is. He has every right to try to protect his copyright, and as he feels it is being violated, whether that is actually the case or not, then making a stand is what you are meant to do.
Now, can we please stop acting like children and attacking one person because he’s done something that no-one likes? No-one deserves the level of hate he’s getting for the, lets face it, small event that has happened in a game’s history when there are much worse things happening in the world. Sponge is coming that will be the solution to this mess, and while it is inconvenient, it’ll eventually put all this to bed.
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I highly doubt that MS would want to take down the modding community. Possibly bring it under their control and ownership legally… however, from everything I have read there seems to have been some sort of dispute that took place internally between Mojang and Bukkit and since no one has come forward to clarify what exactly went on we’re all left guessing at this point.
Therefore, I’m not going to speculate whether or not Wolf’s motives are noble. We simply don’t know at this point.
My Opinion IS:
We must all share our toys at some pointYou know what they say, If you put a bunch of monkeys in a room with Java Syntax they will eventually make a Bukkit.
But that also means that the monkey’s have an equal chance of making a Sponge as well…
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Dangit! Send for more Monkey’s!! I don’t care if you have to kidnap them from the Amazon jungle! We just need more!
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