Is Sponge growing a bit too fast, and too early?

Sponge Sponge Discussion
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(cross posted from http://www.reddit.com/r/spongeproject/comments/2g6uxd/discussion_is_sponge_growing_a_bit_too_fast_and/)

Well, just my own two cents.

From what I can see, people are literally throwing themselves at the sponge developers, trying to help out in whatever way they can. While I don’t think this is a bad thing, I’m quite worried about whether it’s the right time to contribute.

Firstly, looking at the PRs, there are one too many duplicates of the same thing. From what I can see the base of the API is still considerably in flux. Hence I don’t see why people should be considering doing PRs at the moment. I really do encourage people to have another think and consider, whether your team application/PR is really necessary at this point in time.

Secondly, the team has stated that Sponge will most likely be for 1.8 and above, at the very least. Hence, I don’t see why we can’t still use the current bukkit ecosystem for now (don’t get me wrong, I’m not encouraging semi-legal redistribution of spigot or cauldron), and not panicking about whether sponge can be in a useable state to build X plugin off.

Thirdly, I think we need to give the team some space to decide what they want to do with the API, what is their vision for it. I think we should hold off on suggestions and such, until the team can develop a clearer picture of what they want to do. The new PR guidelines is a step in the right direction, but there’s still a long way to go.

Fourthly, we will most likely not see a viable 1.8 modded server before the new year. 1.8 introduces many breaking things, like a rework of the render engine and the introduction of multi-threading. Mod authors will likely take a long time to update because of this changes. While I understand that vanilla servers are only affected by the speed of forge and sponge updates, I don’t see how everyone is in such a tizzy to develop the API now. We have time, lets slow down and think things through, of what should be in and what shouldn’t.

Fifthly, sponge was born out of chaos, and we are still in the middle of said chaos. Let the dust settle. We should calm down, take a deep breath and sit back. Rome was not built in a day and neither can sponge.

Sixthly, there is a lot of hype, maybe too much hype surrounding this project. While in understand that the fact of bukkit, forge and many other developers coming together to develop one API for server plugins is a good thing, I fail to see how its the next best thing since MCP/Modloader (or sliced bread?). Hence, I think this problem of “too much hype” is a potential issue going forward.

TL;DR: While I think the community getting involved is good, I don’t think the amount of community involvement at this point in time is sustainable for the API. We have time, lets give some time for the API to develop. As someone on IRC said, “People are already thinking where to put the furniture, even though the foundations have just been built.”

(posted it on reddit originally, but I was thinking if we could have this discussion here as well)

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Crosspost comment:

I aggree with you, but you cannot stop people to contribute, like sk89q said …
that is the reason I created an overview: SpongeApiOverview by IDragonfire - Google Sheets

First I created a doc that people must wait but since the forum is online everyboy want to help: HowCanIHelp? - Google Docs

btw. The sponge core team sitting in a closed IRC channel and discuss all the basic stuff :wink:

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I agree; the project’s not in a state where it’s time for lots of contributions by non-core team members- excluding discussion and input of that type.

I really believe the project would be best served if all of these really passionate and talented folks would just hold off a bit, and try to avoid jogging the project team’s sword arm while they get things rolling.

That said, it won’t stop the flood of PRs… However, many of them are doomed to not be accepted. The silver lining is that at least there will be some good ideas in some of them that can be taken up.

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I think there should be huge hype for what succeeds Bukkit. Since so many plugins need to be redone for Sponge, the more help the better. Though Bukkit may still work now if you have a copy, it is not a permanent solution, and in my opinion, the faster this project has the momentum to get plugins working from the API, the better.

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This is mainly the reason why I am waiting off on anything, considering the core API is still being developed, I’m gonna be taking the time to learn java better first, while getting to know the project and the community, so if I do ever decide to contribute, I will at least be well prepared :wink:

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I don’t view it as Sponge growing fast, I see it as overwhelming support of what is trying to be accomplished. I am sure that the core team realizes the situation they have on their hands and will manage just fine.

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No I don’t think so I feel that the more support the better and it is the key to achieving somthing great

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Too much hype/support > No hype/support

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I agree with OP. Everyone has their way of going over about things, but in projects like these you really need to keep structure in your code. Let the core devs lay the foundation and whenever that’s all there the community can propose adaptations to the code. I think they’ve already done a good job polling the community about their opinions.

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This is exactly the problem the Linux community has with all the users ready to help. Open source is great, but when you have hundreds of un-skilled users trying their best to submit crappy fixes or code that simply doesn’t work at all, it does not help.

Save the community the trouble, and let the developers be few :slight_smile: The rest of us can be bug testers, which is a much better way the users can help.

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I’m simply waiting till sponge is off the ground before I start contributing. Once it seems more viable to get involved in the actual development of sponge then PRs and(or) other help will actually be very helpful rather than time consuming of those currently involved in the project startup.

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While it may be useful for people to contribute ideas to this project, it’s a bit too early to contribute code to it as the framework for the project will be in flux for sometime, It would be best to let the lead people deal with getting the base coded first.

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Honestly, I think the Sponge hype is necessary. Bukkit was a ticking time bomb and had issues. Getting all of these developers together and making a better program is and was necessary, regardless of the chaos. Whether anything happens with Bukkit or not, I encourage the swift development of sponge.

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If closing off pull requests was an option, we would consider it. However, it’s not, so at best we can only tend to the incoming torrent of PRs – some of questionable quality.

Right now we’re working on an issue tracker so we can better organize both our and the community’s efforts. That will be our official “to do” list, a way for us to prioritize, and allow us to also plot a potential date for a first release.

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Same here @BitByte! :stuck_out_tongue: I learned the basics of java a couple years ago, but had stopped learning, so I’m refreshing and learning more now. I’m also in CIS class about java programming so that’s cool too. If you ever want to ask about anything or talk on Skype, message me at @ NewAlpha200 I also want to know the project and community better, so I can help and get involved more.

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Same here. We need to give them some breathing room people!
We dont want these awesome devs to choke…

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With Bukkit dead and Spigot in questionable condition, people are just flocking to the only shining light. Things may be a little chaotic right now but will settle down eventually.

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Bit.ly/BukkitJar

Repository of bukkit jar on bukkit.org
Was not affected by DMCA as wolverine said
DL.bukkit.org when they also had a repo for it with 5 or so latest jars.

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I know right.
So annoying if everyone tries to contribute when really it’s annoying the developers taking there VALUABLE TIME away from coding on sponge to simply deny the help.

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Bukkit is not affected by the DMCA afaik, only Craftbukkit. Also, try not to use bit.ly links as it makes your links look suspicious.