[Redacted]
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No. For one, a petition on a staff position is ridiculous. Two, are you even aware as to why @DarkArcana was removed from staff?
[quote]a misunderstanding involving the creation of an LLC and team organization.[/quote]You could say that.
[quote]From the evidence that has come to light so far[/quote]You mean the things you’ve heard from @DarkArcana himself, and not the people who actually removed him from staff?
This is not a reason that you hire someone. That’s like saying “It’s okay that our salesman smokes crack, he makes a lot of money!”
Listen, I liked @DarkArcana. He seemed like a chill guy. But you don’t form a petition after hearing one side of the story over a staffing decision.
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You didn’t read the logs I take it. You have a valid point, but the fact of the matter is that logs were made public like two months ago showing both sides of the thing. It was a disagreement.
My argument was more against the need for a public petition. A decision like this is done between staff. If @ButterDev wants you to be back on the team, he should have messaged a staff member.
EDIT: There are logs. But @ButterDev’s evidence for this petition was a topic in which only your side was given.
Yeah haha. A petition while kind of funny isn’t going to go anywhere. And outside of asking sponge staff, someone should have consulted me. But it is very clear that I’m not welcome back into the fold. So that’s fine.
Actually, those who took the decision didn’t present solid arguments as to why they did it. Or did they? If they did, where are those arguments posted?
@ButterDev is presenting the will of several people. That can’t be done through a PM.
Yeah, you’re right. However:
I believe this means you enjoyed what you did. People like to do what they like to do 
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[quote=“Dannyps, post:6, topic:6722”]
Actually, those who took the decision didn’t present solid arguments as to why they did it.
[/quote]Since when are internal staff decisions any of our business? They don’t need to justify to us who is and isn’t on their team.
[quote=“Dannyps, post:6, topic:6722”]
@ButterDev is presenting the will of several people. That can’t be done through a PM.
[/quote]Actually, you can add multiple people to PMs with Discourse (and plenty of other forum software).
That story didn’t end well.
EDIT: Actually, this isn’t only about being on the team. This begins on a much lower level: bans. And most communities justify publically all bans.
Ok 
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It’s a community project, not a business. Staff decisions should be a concern of the community, not some omnipotent despot. That’s kind of the reason why I got canned. I wanted to flatten the management structure to make things more equal and democratic. The people at the top wanted to essentially own the project. Their only argument provided was that you can’t own an MIT open source project, but that they wanted to be in place to veto any decisions that other people might make that didn’t line up with their vision. Well, what about the vision of the community? We couldn’t even implement a way to overrule the “veto” power in case majority of people wanted something else.
That’s the core of it. I was kicked out because I didn’t want to play by their rules and made it clear. But the thing is, I was voicing the concerns of other people in the staff who were apparently too afraid to say anything.
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I fail to see how the inquisition is relevant to a staffing decision on a relatively small open-source project.
[quote=“DarkArcana, post:9, topic:6722”]
It’s a community project, not a business.
[/quote]The projects listed on the GitHub page are certainly community-based. However, I don’t remember the last time I was consulted on what forum software we used, who was on staff, who wasn’t on staff, what server host we use, whether or not we have a CI, or really anything else besides the open-source project on GitHub.
[quote=“DarkArcana, post:9, topic:6722”]
I wanted to flatten the management structure to make things more equal and democratic.
[/quote]I’m all for democracy. However, once we elect the people in power, we don’t get a say in what they do with that power. Such as firing or hiring secretaries.
[quote=“DarkArcana, post:9, topic:6722”]
but that they wanted to be in place to veto any decisions that other people might make that didn’t line up with their vision.
[/quote]Isn’t this exactly what PR staff is for, already? The project may be MIT, but submitting code doesn’t automatically earn that code a place in the project.
[quote=“DarkArcana, post:9, topic:6722”]
That’s the core of it. I was kicked out because I didn’t want to play by their rules and made it clear.
[/quote]Well, people in charge tend to fire people who refuse to “play by their rules”. So at least we all understand what happened, now.
[quote=“DarkArcana, post:9, topic:6722”]
I was voicing the concerns of other people in the staff who were apparently too afraid to say anything.
[/quote]Maybe your martyr-ism will give them the will to speak up for themselves, then? In the end, staff will need to stand up against staff. Not forum users.
Because those decisions were largely made by a small handful of people without a lot of input from the community.
That’s in a representative democracy, a republic. But in any case, you’d at least have a choice on who makes decisions, those people would be accountable, and you could change out leadership. There are a lot of different forms of representation. Democracy is a giant umbrella term for hundreds of different systems of management.
Not code related decisions. Project vision and direction decisions. Like that business-ish stuff you mentioned above, that wasn’t up for debate but handled by whoever is in charge and made the decision.
Why did you do that?
Can people please just stop pouring unwanted fuel on this and let it die out as an issue. All that needed to be said about this has been said, you simply can’t petition for someone to be made staff, especially someone who is no longer part of the team because their views were simply at odds with reality.
I think the core misconceptions here is that there’s any “power” to be given out in the first place. This is a community project for crying out loud, everyone plays their part and pulls together in the pursuit of the project. Community admins admin, project leaders arbitrate (because let’s face it if you have 20 people squabbling on one topic it actually doesn’t bloody matter what the end choice is, a choice just needs to be made), devs do dev things, documenters do doc things.
Can we just move on with our collective lives and let this drop? It’s achieving nothing at all.
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[quote=“mumfrey, post:13, topic:6722”]
Community admins admin
[/quote]I think the real core misconception here is that this isn’t true. Apparently, the community wants @DarkArcana back as a community -> project representative. Mostly because since he was removed, the amount of feedback between the two has been, admittedly, zero.
If the community really administrated the admins, we wouldn’t have responses such as:
Zidane> I'd rather this not discussed at all. This has nothing to do with anyone but Sponge Staff and himself
<Zidane> He knows where to find us.
<Zidane> That is all.
<Zidane> Has nothing to do with the community and, honestly, the community makes this situation (or lack of until people create said situation for drama) 100x worse.
`
Do I think @DarkArcana should be reinstated? Personally, I didn't think that that was our call. Which contradicts your statement that the community has any power to dictate the administrative decisions, and Zidane's response that it's none of our business.
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I see this has done nothing but stir up more arguments and drama. Frankly I was afraid of that. The purpose of the petition was to simply demonstrate the community’s opinion on the subject and I was hoping after this long that people would no longer be defensive about the whole ordeal. Anyway, it seems that this is still extremely taboo, so I apologize for stirring things up and I will be removing the petition when I get a chance (if possible).
EDIT: I do want to state that I did not expect the petition in any way to result in a decision, it just seemed that some things were falling out recently and I thought that possibly restarting discussion after all the hate had died down would be healthy. Again, was very wrong.
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That is a nice response, let the discussion continue then.
Very well. Can someone please explain why are DarkArcana and Disconsented banned from the IRC. With specific reasons, not “violating IRC rules”. That’s way too dubious.
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I think you mean ambiguous. 
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Don’t really care what he means. I just want an answer.