I understand and agree with what you mean, but I was talking about something really basic. Like a simple, incomplete list of devs possibly with contact info (I understand if they wouldn’t at this point though) and a short about page for their very tentative future plans and what they’re currently working on (Like the whole licensed libs problem) Heck, posting to a husk subreddit and occasionally updating there would be enough.
I understand that they weren’t prepared for the amount of shit they suddenly got, but in addition to posting here, they could also put it somewhere on their site. Heck, they could literally copy and paste the op and it would be enough because it answers most of the questions everyone had.
Possibly so, but I doubt they were even worried about providing those sorts of details until they were ready to release the source, so just put a placeholder website in the mean time.
It may seem trivial, but putting together a document to reflect a a project is likely only easy if it’s a small, single-person project. They may be trying to put something up as we speak. Maybe they’re circulating a document among themselves, but it would still take some time to have something accurate. Not sure how long it takes sk89q to format any of the documents we see, or how many other people are involved in it.
Flame wars typically involve personal attacks, which don’t seem to have occured yet. As so far, all that I’ve seen involves legitimate questions and issues regarding Husk, which I have no problem with, the moderation team will simply intervene if posts have no relevance to the issue at hand and/or merely insult people.
Further, as we’ve permitted discussion of other APIs on this forum, asking to actually be able to view another API+Implementation is essential in being able to properly evaluate it. Until the source code (Even without documenation) is actually available, I see no issue with people criticising the lack of it.
I’m sure that’s all true, especially the part about it being a placeholder. And You may be right about them making docs as we speak. But I was saying is that the faq they posted here two days ago, could’ve been and could be copy and pasted over on their site to help clear up questions for anyone else who may not even see this thread too. About pages and docs outlining their projects could take a while but seeing as they already have an brief faq created already, it shouldn’t take long to move that much over to their site.
I quite understand. It just seems people are becoming more and more hostile towards Husk and repeating the same concerns (which almost come across as attacking their credibility, not that they had a good introduction here) in more and more hostile context. Not saying that it has gotten to the point where it’s aimless insults, only that it seems it may become that if it continues, not that mods need concern themselves this early on. I even doubt the Husk team intended to be involved on the Sponge forums at all or to be interrogated by this community since it seems they didn’t start the overall Husk ‘discussion’.
@HeirOfChairs
That’s true enough. Maybe they will, but I still suspect it’d need to be circulated among themselves before they all feel it’s safe to use as an official FAQ.
I certainly hope so. Because the longer it takes the more it’ll be criticised for the lack of info. Not that it needs any more of course, but it seems to be a big issue with the general sponge community second only the open source issue. And even that doesn’t seem to be that bad after his reasonable explanation seems to have placated most people.
More hostile towards Husk? legitimate questions and concerns is not being hostile towards it.
Attacking their credibility? what credibility?
Perhaps this thread will be a wake up call to them, step it up or don’t come on here trying to legitimize something that has a broken site, no info, and no source code.
Also please stop with the talk of competition, these are not businesses these are hobbies. Nobody is competing to have their free code used over other peoples free code.
I wasn’t saying your questions were hostile, I was saying the manner in which ‘questions’ are generally put across is becoming more hostile.
By my account, they have credibility from @InvokeStatic’s response to the flaming and the troll putting false info forward. He sounds like a decent enough person to at least get the benefit of the doubt.
Again, they weren’t claiming anything on our community, that was, for the 3rd or 4th time, a troll.
And there IS competition. Coding is quite a hobby for these guys, and most people in this community. They’re coding for free (generally). Not because they have any obligation to.
i think competition is good too.
for example,
if husk sees something they like in sponge, they can add it to husk.
if sponge sees something they like in husk, they can add it to sponge.
that causes both platforms to become better as they build on each others experience.
Come to think of it, the definition of competition could be a bit lost here, as it pertains to APIs. Not that we’re saying that this is some to-the-death competition, but, as @robrobk mentioned, a constructive one. At some point, ideology may be the only thing differentiating the APIs, once any advantages one has over the other is compensated. And if two APIs become too similar, I’m sure they can merge if both parties agree. Nothing is etched in stone here (I’d hope not).
Or since this is open source, working on the same project would help a lot more than fragmenting the community into multiple groups. This is pointless. No plugin devs will use both, this is why canary lost to bukkit. nobody wants to work on 2 api’s and the community only uses what the majority of plugin devs use.
what is the point of having 2 things do the same thing, and both rip from each others source? why not idk, work on the same project and add those same ideas into 1, that way both projects won’t need to have the back and forth idea swap and at the same time fragment the community into 2 groups. Idk but I must be far too crazy…
Because as stated, they are attempting to do things in a fundamentally different manner that conflicts with the sponge projects current direction.
You worry about fragmentation, but honestly let it fragment, at one stage one will “win” and sponge currently would seem to have the headstart due to community, If sponge manages to “lose” it will be because husk or another API was clearly superior enough that they managed to get the community to shift for whichever reason.
You want to develop for a single platform? Then do it! No one is stopping you.
You started to see it happening with spigot vs bukkit, but due to some compatibility between them it wasn’t as obvious and caused blurring of the lines which caused drama for everyone involved.
Spigot and Bukkit are essentially the same, plugin working on bukkit works on spigot. How is Husk going in a different direction? You haven’t even seen the source code, how would you know what direction they are going?
When I state that I will not develop for Husk, that does not mean I will only develop for sponge. Atm the community is already being split, hence I will develop for Bukkits api for spigot, and also for sponge. I am sure I am not alone. But as many others, developing for 2 entirely different APIs is enough for many who have other things they want to do with their free time.
Keep in mind the only things that the Husk has, is a broken site, and very little words…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m doubtful of the projects success but if they do succeed then good for them.
When I state that I will not develop for Husk, that does not mean I will only develop for sponge. Atm the community is already being split, hence I will develop for Bukkits api for spigot, and also for sponge. I am sure I am not alone. But as many others, developing for 2 entirely different APIs is enough for many who have other things they want to do with their free time.
Then that is still your decision, no one is stopping you.
How is Husk going in a different direction?
From what I can tell, Husk is closer to an alternative to the Minecraft Coder Pack or Glowstone then to Sponge, Instead of relying upon patches to decompiled code, and de/reobfuscation they are doing it at runtime with their proprietary library, using the JDK’s tooling. Somehow this lets them legally implement the bukkit API, However I am still confused as to how as wouldn’t the library that they are using need to be GPL?
Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that should sponge take off, and Husk take off also, there is nothing stopping a sponge API/huskd project like their announced bukkit/huskd project.
My point is many others will do the same, I am not asking anyone to “stop” me. I realize that it is my choice, I am stating it because others will also have the same mindset.
And I’m saying I’ll believe it when I start seeing code, not silly posts explaining that they can’t show code because it has closed source code that it depends on… Show, don’t tell… thats all. But I will also have the opinion that its pointless to even make another project as the majority of the community aka bukkit has chosen Sponge. ANd if they choose to replace mcp, goodluck.
[quote=“Firestar, post:73, topic:3153”]
Competition is NOT good for a modding community
[/quote]Agree to disagree, although I agree with the overall of the post.
It’s that stupid game of musical chairs, isn’t it… Don’t blame you there.
Well, if the claims are true, and it IS opensource, then he has absolutely no code yet. …so, why are we even worried…?
TL;DR: If husk becomes better than sponge, I may code with their API, but sponge has familiar names/faces/IGNs/code-patterns as well as a repo open that I can follow and comment on.
I’m a webdesigner, do you guys still want someone to design/create a documentation template for Sponge? (Free offcourse)
Just so you know this post is off topic, it would be best if you made another thread for this.
That said, I’m happy that @InvokeStatic cleared some things up about husk. Whether or not competition is good for the community (I personally think it is) I hope it does well for itself even though I don’t plan to develop for it.
